tag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:/discussions/problems/2132-mountain-lion-gpgtools-webGPGTools: Discussion 2016-02-24T12:34:53Ztag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-24T13:06:49Z2012-10-29T07:23:15ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Thank you very much! It's in your inbox!</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-24T23:51:02Z2012-10-29T15:29:29ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>I'm not sure if this is a ML issue, but do not recall it in the
previous version. The default is to send a signed message and this
does not seem to be settable in prefs. This seemed like it would be
fine (if a receiver does not recognize the attachment, so what?).
But I found that a recipient using Outlook to read Gmail via imap,
shows signed messages as having an empty body. Signed mail to gmail
reads fine on my mac, and on the gmail web page so I'm guessing
this is an outlok issue. But, it would help if I could change the
default for signing messages to work around it.</p>
<p>Also the two icons for encrypted and singed are in my view too
small and the locked vs unlocked and signed (checked) vs unsigned
(x'ed) icons are not distinct enough so its sort of hard to notice.
Apple's current style trend of dark gray on light gray isn't
helping here, but making the state changes more obvious would
help.</p></div>jrgtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T00:53:29Z2012-10-29T07:23:15ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi John,</p>
<p>we've started to implement a feature where GPGMail learns from
previous emails on whether to use S/MIME or GPG, whether to sign or
not and whether to encrypt or not, new messages from a specific
account to specific recipients.<br>
The implementation is still very buggy (not really working) which
explains the wrong behavior you're seeing.<br>
Once we iron out the bugs there should be almost no false positives
after some time of learning.</p>
<p>In the composing window we went with exactly the same controls
as Apple uses for their S/MIME implementation and will probably
stick to them, but will certainly reconsider if this issue is
brought to our attention a lot.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the icons when viewing the message are
small, and we'll definitely improve the UI in future versions,
which will make them more noticable.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for your feedback!</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T01:02:47Z2012-10-29T15:29:29ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Yea it doesn't seem to recall correctly now (but sometimes does
I think), but that would be good way to do it. no pref needed!
Cool.</p></div>jrgtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T01:07:40Z2012-10-29T07:23:16ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Yeah, that's the problem. Since we wanted to finally get the
Mountain Lion build out, we've decided to keep this unfinished
implementation since it doesn't do serious harm at the moment. But
it's bothering.</p>
<p>We'd like to introduce as few preferences as possible to make it
as simple as possible for beginners. We will add advanced
preferences accessibly via the Terminal though, taking into
consideration that there's a good chance power users know how to
work with the Terminal, but they'll still be easy enough to change
by not so Terminal-savvy users.</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T08:22:36Z2012-10-29T07:23:18ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Herro. This software is muy elegante. May I have link for
Mountain Lion when you have a moment? Thank you! C:</p>
<p>-T</p></div>Thomastag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T10:09:29Z2012-10-29T07:23:18ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi Thomas,</p>
<p>thank you very much!<br>
It should be in your inbox now!</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T12:24:09Z2012-10-29T07:23:18ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>I previously donated, but haven't received an email. I am very
keen to test GPGMail on Mountain Lion.</p></div>Kevin Ltag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T13:12:16Z2012-10-29T07:23:19ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi Kevin,</p>
<p>you should have received your preview a long time ago.<br>
We've very sorry but we've experienced problems with our mail
server when sending out to all current donors 3 weeks ago. So a lot
of them might not have received it.</p>
<p>It should be in your inbox now!<br>
Sorry, again!</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-25T13:56:57Z2012-10-29T07:23:19ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Thanks Luke, I've installed it now. WIll provide feedback in due
course.</p></div>Kevin Ltag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T13:20:05Z2012-10-29T07:23:20ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Ive also donated. (I believe so) although it was under a
different email address. I will also donate again as soon as there
is more than just a couple of hundred dollars in my possestion at
any given time. ATM I cant seem to obtain credit or something
without paying a downpayment. Please understand. I would be very
grateful if the current ML gpgtools would be shared with me.
thanks.</p></div>Proteustag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T13:46:21Z2012-10-29T07:23:21ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>I've also donated :) Would appreciate a link! Keep up the good
work guys :)</p></div>Thijstag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T14:41:07Z2012-10-29T07:23:22ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>@Thijs: Thank you very much. The email with instructions on how
to obtain the preview build should already be in your inbox</p>
<p>@Proteus: If you could send us an email with your paypal address
to team @ gpgtools.org I'll immediately send you the build! If
you've already donated, you're absolutely eligible to the preview
build and you certainly don't have to donate again, unless you
really want to :-)</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T15:51:56Z2012-10-29T07:23:23ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Idk could be <a href=
"mailto:mapko@unrmn.com">mapko@unrmn.com</a> or marko@unrmn im not
sure im unable to access my servers sort of. Im pretty sure its one
of those. Yes im very interested in donating too bad im not really
a good programmer otherwise id dontate time programming.</p></div>Generally Speakingtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T15:52:34Z2012-10-29T07:23:23ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p><a href="mailto:Unext@mmrtmm.com">Unext@mmrtmm.com</a> is
another possible.</p></div>Generally Speakingtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-26T17:21:58Z2012-10-29T07:23:23ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Found it! Thank you very much! Email is already on its way to
you</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-27T02:19:57Z2012-10-29T07:23:25ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi, I donated, a link to the ML build would be appreciated.</p></div>Geoftag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-27T08:26:41Z2012-10-29T07:23:28ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi Geof,</p>
<p>thank you very much for your support!<br>
Instructions on how to obtain the GPGMail for Mountain Lion preview
build should already be in your inbox.</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-27T16:48:11Z2012-10-29T07:23:31ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hey i donated a while ago, could you send me the link for the
mountain lion</p></div>Ryan Drouintag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-27T17:02:45Z2012-10-29T07:23:31ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><hr>
<p>Sent from my mobile.</p></div>Dylan Neildtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-27T17:15:17Z2012-10-29T07:23:31ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi Ryan,</p>
<p>let me tell you, we're very sorry! You should have received the
preview a few weeks ago, but we've experienced problems with our
mail server with one batch, and it looks like you might have been
one of those recipients.</p>
<p>Instructions on how to obtain the GPGMail for Mountain Lion
preview build should now be in your inbox.</p>
<p>Let us know what you think!</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-28T03:02:46Z2012-10-29T07:23:32ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>?? What is this about?</p></div>Generally Speakingtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-28T15:16:07Z2012-10-29T07:23:33ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>What is what about?</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-28T17:42:42Z2012-10-29T07:23:34ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Luke, someone posted something rather inane a few messages ago.
Since I'm also getting frustrated here, I'll lay out this rant.</p>
<p>I appreciate that it's too difficult to implement some of the
ideas that some of us have posted like doing a kickstarter to make
the funding more transparent or putting the app on the app store as
well as making it open source. I think we're all cognizant of the
need for you guys to make money (or cover your costs or create a
carrot or whatever you want to market it as), but you guys are
running this like Android open source, where it's open to some and
not to others, and done so at some point in the distant future when
it's beneficial to goals that are opaque to the rest of the
community. Speaking for myself, and this is in no way an indictment
to the efforts that nobody else on the planet is making here,
there's just a few elements that are on a very slippery ethical
slope here (again, like Android).</p>
<p>Nobody in their right mind would think that GPGTools is ever
going to help a select few people retire. If it ever got that big,
Apple would just build the functionality in the base binary because
demand was so high. As an individual contributor that has been
dedicated to the open source movement for over a decade and in the
overall industry for another decade on top of that, I think I can
say that with some authority. You can call it open source and treat
the community like it's open source or you can call it proprietary
and do what ever you want to people paying, but playing both sides
of that starts to feel shifty.</p>
<p>This isn't to say you guys should not make a shit ton of money,
buy fabulous cars and houses, and basically live like the rock
stars that you are. But don't wear the FOSS patch on your arm while
you get there, because that's not what FOSS is about. You guys are
benefiting every day from FOSS software and in fact wouldn't be
able to survive if it was all ripped out of your Macs before
breakfast one day.</p>
<p>On top of it, some of us are only monitoring this thread because
there doesn't seem to be any other way to get notification of the
thing being released, and in the mean time, we're having to get
these messages every few hours of "I sent in my donation, where is
my link" and then "oh thank you for your donation, your link is in
the mail" a little later. It's really fucking annoying, to be quite
frank. If it was at least running through GNU Mailman, we could put
the thing on digest mode and not be so overwhelmed with the
noise.</p>
<p>Like I have said, I would have donated a long time ago, but your
responses to people who have suggested ideas that are otherwise
good patterns for collecting money on open source projects have
been ignored or filed to the "todo, someday, maybe" file with no
other clarification. I tend to operate on the assumption I am not
the only person that thinks in a given way, so there are probably
others. Pick a pattern, go with it, and adjust your communication
so that it doesn't impinge real open source projects, but don't
sully the aims of the greater FOSS movement in the process.</p>
<p>Finally, this letter could have been written to anyone that was
doing things the way you guys are doing it. This is to say it is
not aimed at you or anyone else on the team as personal invective,
but I'm not going to spend this much time on it and mince words,
either.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your work on this, I hope you guys get this
straightened out shortly.</p>
<p>Brian Topping</p></div>Brian Toppingtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-29T11:31:52Z2012-10-29T12:49:23ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Hi Brian,</p>
<p>I can completely understand your frustration, yet I think you're
really exaggerating this time.</p>
<p>I've re-read this entire thread and all our discussions to write
an as adequate answer as possible and I'll address your issues one
by one.</p>
<p>We really appreciate any ideas of you guys and girls on how to
make sure this project is continuing since we'd really love to see
it thrive. We've also looked intro every single idea mentioned
here, if we hadn't thought of it before, in order to find out if it
would help to further pursue them.</p>
<p>Most of the ideas make a lot of sense in the long run and we'll
definitely have a second look at them in the very near future, but
none of them would have helped with our "short-time goal", which
was to have a working Mountain Lion version of GPGMail
available.</p>
<p>The decision for the donation only version of GPGMail for
Mountain Lion was not made light-heartedly - believe me - but the
time we could devote to GPGTools was so limited, that we either had
to find a way to get something back or otherwise consider
discontinuing it all together.</p>
<p>Now I agree that our current system is absolutely far from
perfect, which in the first place is due to the fact that this is
our first shot at trying to get a little bit back from our users
for all the time we invest into this project and software to make
it even better and easier to use for even more people. We'll
definitely find better ways in the future.</p>
<p>You're pointing out that we're "playing both sides", that's also
one of the reasons why I've re-read all the posts in this
discussion. I wanted to find out if the fact that GPGMail (or
GPGTools in its entirety) is open source was ever really promoted
or emphasized upon. I really couldn't find any strong suggestions
of it.</p>
<p>There's also a very simple explanation for that: in the last two
years maybe 2-3 people have really contributed code to GPGTools for
some time, besides our core team. In the last year it was only one
person.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I truly love the idea of open source and it
has a major impact on technological progress, but in the case of
GPGTools, considering the lack of code contribution, it really
doesn't make much difference if it is open source or not. At least
for me, that's also the reason why I think we shouldn't promote the
fact that this software is open source at all, since it simply
doesn't matter. It's a nice side effect for people who want to
tinker with it, but the fact alone, that it's open source, doesn't
add any value for our users, in my opinion.</p>
<p>What I did emphasize on however, is, that the software we offer
is free - not costing any money - which still holds true for all
released versions.<br>
But now in addition, while we're trying to finish the GPGMail for
Mountain Lion version, there's an option for people who need access
to it immediately, by donating money.<br>
And one thing is for sure: if we hadn't introduced this option we'd
still be far away from GPGMail for Mountain Lion.</p>
<p>I really don't wanna get into the point of comparing GPGTools to
Android much, since that's simply pointless.<br>
Fact is, the source code isn't up yet due to the mere fact that I'm
currently the only one in possession of the latest changes for
Mountain Lion, not even the rest of the team has it. I've been
working day and night for the last 3 weeks to finish another
project, and the only time I could spend on GPGTools, I helped
people on this platform here and the last thing on my mind was
pushing that code. If more people would hack on it, it probably
would be priority nr. 1, since almost no one outside the core team
does, it's definitely not. This might sound like a lame excuse but
there's simply nothing more to it than that.</p>
<p>And since we could have avoided this discussion all together, If
I had pushed the updates, I truly and deeply apologize for not
having done so, especially to my team members, but don't blame
GPGTools for my shortcoming.</p>
<p>As for the length of this thread (and the resulting
notifications): We've decided to keep this thread open as the main
discussion concerning all questions about GPGMail and 10.8. This is
not uncommon for questions often asked.</p>
<p>GNU Mailman is great for very computer or email savvy people but
it's definitely not very user friendly, escpecially in regards to
keeping up with stuff you actually care about. You get each and
every single email regardless of the content, and even as a digest
it's hard to find the content you're looking for. It's simply not
what's most helpful to our users.<br>
We've used mailman in the past. After a while we've had 1 message
every two or three month, so we've decided to shut it down and try
Tender instead.<br>
Now people are asking questions all the time since this platform is
way more accessible than any mailing list.</p>
<p>And honestly, if you're that freaking bothered by the
notifications, simply press the big "Unsubscribe from Updates"
button and be done with it! After that you can still check back
once in a while.</p>
<p>In most cases we've given a clarification, for example why
GPGMail is not allowed on the app store, or why Kickstarter is not
an option (it requires a US bank account which we as europeans
don't have access to).</p>
<p>As final words, I want to remind you that this is the first
bigger software project a lot of our core team members, including
me, are involved with and we're learning as we go. We would love to
have all the answers already, and would love to make no mistakes,
but that's simply not how it works.<br>
There's a lot going on internally and we're absolutely aware that
our communication to the "public" is a bit fuzzy but we've already
taken steps to further improve it and will continue to do so.</p>
<p>And as first order of bussiness today, I've pushed all the code
for GPGMail Mountain Lion (branch experimental).<br>
So enjoy it & go wild with it.</p>
<p>P.S.: "Rockstars"? Seriously? Necessary? "wouldn't be able to
survive"? Seriously? Necessary?</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-29T11:49:33Z2012-10-29T11:49:33ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Huh?</p>
<p>I haven't posted anything regarding GPG tools. I am actually
very happy with it. I'm a bit confused as to why this is addressed
to me???</p></div>bdebottaritag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-29T12:08:41Z2012-10-29T12:08:41ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>@bdebbotari: Brian Topping is addressed.</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-29T19:37:36Z2012-10-29T19:37:36ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Can you please unsubscribe me from this thread</p></div>Thomas Grandsaerttag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-10-29T19:56:13Z2012-10-29T19:56:13ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>You can unsubscribe yourself.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p></div>Linh Nguyentag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/193011792012-11-01T09:12:39Z2012-11-01T09:13:26ZMountain Lion GPGTools (web)<div><p>Nice to see GPGTools coming to ML :)<br>
Just donated and would love to see a preview in my inbox soon! Keep
up the good work, GPGTools is a breeze <3!</p></div>Alexander Dormann