Mountain Lion GPGTools (web)
Just wondering if you guys have an expected release date for GPG Tools for Mountain Lion OS X . Also, if you aren't expecting to have it running soon, is there any other way to encrypt email with Mountain Lion?
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Support Staff 61 Posted by Luke Le on 24 Oct, 2012 01:06 PM
Thank you very much! It's in your inbox!
62 Posted by jrg on 24 Oct, 2012 11:51 PM
I'm not sure if this is a ML issue, but do not recall it in the previous version. The default is to send a signed message and this does not seem to be settable in prefs. This seemed like it would be fine (if a receiver does not recognize the attachment, so what?). But I found that a recipient using Outlook to read Gmail via imap, shows signed messages as having an empty body. Signed mail to gmail reads fine on my mac, and on the gmail web page so I'm guessing this is an outlok issue. But, it would help if I could change the default for signing messages to work around it.
Also the two icons for encrypted and singed are in my view too small and the locked vs unlocked and signed (checked) vs unsigned (x'ed) icons are not distinct enough so its sort of hard to notice. Apple's current style trend of dark gray on light gray isn't helping here, but making the state changes more obvious would help.
Support Staff 63 Posted by Luke Le on 25 Oct, 2012 12:53 AM
Hi John,
we've started to implement a feature where GPGMail learns from previous emails on whether to use S/MIME or GPG, whether to sign or not and whether to encrypt or not, new messages from a specific account to specific recipients.
The implementation is still very buggy (not really working) which explains the wrong behavior you're seeing.
Once we iron out the bugs there should be almost no false positives after some time of learning.
In the composing window we went with exactly the same controls as Apple uses for their S/MIME implementation and will probably stick to them, but will certainly reconsider if this issue is brought to our attention a lot.
I agree with you that the icons when viewing the message are small, and we'll definitely improve the UI in future versions, which will make them more noticable.
Thank you very much for your feedback!
64 Posted by jrg on 25 Oct, 2012 01:02 AM
Yea it doesn't seem to recall correctly now (but sometimes does I think), but that would be good way to do it. no pref needed! Cool.
Support Staff 65 Posted by Luke Le on 25 Oct, 2012 01:07 AM
Yeah, that's the problem. Since we wanted to finally get the Mountain Lion build out, we've decided to keep this unfinished implementation since it doesn't do serious harm at the moment. But it's bothering.
We'd like to introduce as few preferences as possible to make it as simple as possible for beginners. We will add advanced preferences accessibly via the Terminal though, taking into consideration that there's a good chance power users know how to work with the Terminal, but they'll still be easy enough to change by not so Terminal-savvy users.
66 Posted by Thomas on 25 Oct, 2012 08:22 AM
Herro. This software is muy elegante. May I have link for Mountain Lion when you have a moment? Thank you! C:
-T
Support Staff 67 Posted by Luke Le on 25 Oct, 2012 10:09 AM
Hi Thomas,
thank you very much!
It should be in your inbox now!
68 Posted by Kevin L on 25 Oct, 2012 12:24 PM
I previously donated, but haven't received an email. I am very keen to test GPGMail on Mountain Lion.
Support Staff 69 Posted by Luke Le on 25 Oct, 2012 01:12 PM
Hi Kevin,
you should have received your preview a long time ago.
We've very sorry but we've experienced problems with our mail server when sending out to all current donors 3 weeks ago. So a lot of them might not have received it.
It should be in your inbox now!
Sorry, again!
70 Posted by Kevin L on 25 Oct, 2012 01:56 PM
Thanks Luke, I've installed it now. WIll provide feedback in due course.
71 Posted by Proteus on 26 Oct, 2012 01:20 PM
Ive also donated. (I believe so) although it was under a different email address. I will also donate again as soon as there is more than just a couple of hundred dollars in my possestion at any given time. ATM I cant seem to obtain credit or something without paying a downpayment. Please understand. I would be very grateful if the current ML gpgtools would be shared with me. thanks.
72 Posted by Thijs on 26 Oct, 2012 01:46 PM
I've also donated :) Would appreciate a link! Keep up the good work guys :)
Support Staff 73 Posted by Luke Le on 26 Oct, 2012 02:41 PM
@Thijs: Thank you very much. The email with instructions on how to obtain the preview build should already be in your inbox
@Proteus: If you could send us an email with your paypal address to team @ gpgtools.org I'll immediately send you the build! If you've already donated, you're absolutely eligible to the preview build and you certainly don't have to donate again, unless you really want to :-)
74 Posted by Generally Speak... on 26 Oct, 2012 03:51 PM
Idk could be [email blocked] or marko@unrmn im not sure im unable to access my servers sort of. Im pretty sure its one of those. Yes im very interested in donating too bad im not really a good programmer otherwise id dontate time programming.
75 Posted by Generally Speak... on 26 Oct, 2012 03:52 PM
[email blocked] is another possible.
Support Staff 76 Posted by Luke Le on 26 Oct, 2012 05:21 PM
Found it! Thank you very much! Email is already on its way to you
77 Posted by Geof on 27 Oct, 2012 02:19 AM
Hi, I donated, a link to the ML build would be appreciated.
Support Staff 78 Posted by Luke Le on 27 Oct, 2012 08:26 AM
Hi Geof,
thank you very much for your support!
Instructions on how to obtain the GPGMail for Mountain Lion preview build should already be in your inbox.
79 Posted by Ryan Drouin on 27 Oct, 2012 04:48 PM
Hey i donated a while ago, could you send me the link for the mountain lion
80 Posted by Dylan Neild on 27 Oct, 2012 05:02 PM
---
Sent from my mobile.
Support Staff 81 Posted by Luke Le on 27 Oct, 2012 05:15 PM
Hi Ryan,
let me tell you, we're very sorry! You should have received the preview a few weeks ago, but we've experienced problems with our mail server with one batch, and it looks like you might have been one of those recipients.
Instructions on how to obtain the GPGMail for Mountain Lion preview build should now be in your inbox.
Let us know what you think!
82 Posted by Generally Speak... on 28 Oct, 2012 03:02 AM
?? What is this about?
Support Staff 83 Posted by Luke Le on 28 Oct, 2012 03:16 PM
What is what about?
84 Posted by Brian Topping on 28 Oct, 2012 05:42 PM
Luke, someone posted something rather inane a few messages ago. Since I'm also getting frustrated here, I'll lay out this rant.
I appreciate that it's too difficult to implement some of the ideas that some of us have posted like doing a kickstarter to make the funding more transparent or putting the app on the app store as well as making it open source. I think we're all cognizant of the need for you guys to make money (or cover your costs or create a carrot or whatever you want to market it as), but you guys are running this like Android open source, where it's open to some and not to others, and done so at some point in the distant future when it's beneficial to goals that are opaque to the rest of the community. Speaking for myself, and this is in no way an indictment to the efforts that nobody else on the planet is making here, there's just a few elements that are on a very slippery ethical slope here (again, like Android).
Nobody in their right mind would think that GPGTools is ever going to help a select few people retire. If it ever got that big, Apple would just build the functionality in the base binary because demand was so high. As an individual contributor that has been dedicated to the open source movement for over a decade and in the overall industry for another decade on top of that, I think I can say that with some authority. You can call it open source and treat the community like it's open source or you can call it proprietary and do what ever you want to people paying, but playing both sides of that starts to feel shifty.
This isn't to say you guys should not make a shit ton of money, buy fabulous cars and houses, and basically live like the rock stars that you are. But don't wear the FOSS patch on your arm while you get there, because that's not what FOSS is about. You guys are benefiting every day from FOSS software and in fact wouldn't be able to survive if it was all ripped out of your Macs before breakfast one day.
On top of it, some of us are only monitoring this thread because there doesn't seem to be any other way to get notification of the thing being released, and in the mean time, we're having to get these messages every few hours of "I sent in my donation, where is my link" and then "oh thank you for your donation, your link is in the mail" a little later. It's really fucking annoying, to be quite frank. If it was at least running through GNU Mailman, we could put the thing on digest mode and not be so overwhelmed with the noise.
Like I have said, I would have donated a long time ago, but your responses to people who have suggested ideas that are otherwise good patterns for collecting money on open source projects have been ignored or filed to the "todo, someday, maybe" file with no other clarification. I tend to operate on the assumption I am not the only person that thinks in a given way, so there are probably others. Pick a pattern, go with it, and adjust your communication so that it doesn't impinge real open source projects, but don't sully the aims of the greater FOSS movement in the process.
Finally, this letter could have been written to anyone that was doing things the way you guys are doing it. This is to say it is not aimed at you or anyone else on the team as personal invective, but I'm not going to spend this much time on it and mince words, either.
Thanks for all your work on this, I hope you guys get this straightened out shortly.
Brian Topping
Luke Le closed this discussion on 29 Oct, 2012 07:20 AM.
Luke Le re-opened this discussion on 29 Oct, 2012 07:24 AM
Support Staff 85 Posted by Luke Le on 29 Oct, 2012 11:31 AM
Hi Brian,
I can completely understand your frustration, yet I think you're really exaggerating this time.
I've re-read this entire thread and all our discussions to write an as adequate answer as possible and I'll address your issues one by one.
We really appreciate any ideas of you guys and girls on how to make sure this project is continuing since we'd really love to see it thrive. We've also looked intro every single idea mentioned here, if we hadn't thought of it before, in order to find out if it would help to further pursue them.
Most of the ideas make a lot of sense in the long run and we'll definitely have a second look at them in the very near future, but none of them would have helped with our "short-time goal", which was to have a working Mountain Lion version of GPGMail available.
The decision for the donation only version of GPGMail for Mountain Lion was not made light-heartedly - believe me - but the time we could devote to GPGTools was so limited, that we either had to find a way to get something back or otherwise consider discontinuing it all together.
Now I agree that our current system is absolutely far from perfect, which in the first place is due to the fact that this is our first shot at trying to get a little bit back from our users for all the time we invest into this project and software to make it even better and easier to use for even more people. We'll definitely find better ways in the future.
You're pointing out that we're "playing both sides", that's also one of the reasons why I've re-read all the posts in this discussion. I wanted to find out if the fact that GPGMail (or GPGTools in its entirety) is open source was ever really promoted or emphasized upon. I really couldn't find any strong suggestions of it.
There's also a very simple explanation for that: in the last two years maybe 2-3 people have really contributed code to GPGTools for some time, besides our core team. In the last year it was only one person.
Don't get me wrong, I truly love the idea of open source and it has a major impact on technological progress, but in the case of GPGTools, considering the lack of code contribution, it really doesn't make much difference if it is open source or not. At least for me, that's also the reason why I think we shouldn't promote the fact that this software is open source at all, since it simply doesn't matter. It's a nice side effect for people who want to tinker with it, but the fact alone, that it's open source, doesn't add any value for our users, in my opinion.
What I did emphasize on however, is, that the software we offer is free - not costing any money - which still holds true for all released versions.
But now in addition, while we're trying to finish the GPGMail for Mountain Lion version, there's an option for people who need access to it immediately, by donating money.
And one thing is for sure: if we hadn't introduced this option we'd still be far away from GPGMail for Mountain Lion.
I really don't wanna get into the point of comparing GPGTools to Android much, since that's simply pointless.
Fact is, the source code isn't up yet due to the mere fact that I'm currently the only one in possession of the latest changes for Mountain Lion, not even the rest of the team has it. I've been working day and night for the last 3 weeks to finish another project, and the only time I could spend on GPGTools, I helped people on this platform here and the last thing on my mind was pushing that code. If more people would hack on it, it probably would be priority nr. 1, since almost no one outside the core team does, it's definitely not. This might sound like a lame excuse but there's simply nothing more to it than that.
And since we could have avoided this discussion all together, If I had pushed the updates, I truly and deeply apologize for not having done so, especially to my team members, but don't blame GPGTools for my shortcoming.
As for the length of this thread (and the resulting notifications): We've decided to keep this thread open as the main discussion concerning all questions about GPGMail and 10.8. This is not uncommon for questions often asked.
GNU Mailman is great for very computer or email savvy people but it's definitely not very user friendly, escpecially in regards to keeping up with stuff you actually care about. You get each and every single email regardless of the content, and even as a digest it's hard to find the content you're looking for. It's simply not what's most helpful to our users.
We've used mailman in the past. After a while we've had 1 message every two or three month, so we've decided to shut it down and try Tender instead.
Now people are asking questions all the time since this platform is way more accessible than any mailing list.
And honestly, if you're that freaking bothered by the notifications, simply press the big "Unsubscribe from Updates" button and be done with it! After that you can still check back once in a while.
In most cases we've given a clarification, for example why GPGMail is not allowed on the app store, or why Kickstarter is not an option (it requires a US bank account which we as europeans don't have access to).
As final words, I want to remind you that this is the first bigger software project a lot of our core team members, including me, are involved with and we're learning as we go. We would love to have all the answers already, and would love to make no mistakes, but that's simply not how it works.
There's a lot going on internally and we're absolutely aware that our communication to the "public" is a bit fuzzy but we've already taken steps to further improve it and will continue to do so.
And as first order of bussiness today, I've pushed all the code for GPGMail Mountain Lion (branch experimental).
So enjoy it & go wild with it.
P.S.: "Rockstars"? Seriously? Necessary? "wouldn't be able to survive"? Seriously? Necessary?
86 Posted by bdebottari on 29 Oct, 2012 11:49 AM
Huh?
I haven't posted anything regarding GPG tools. I am actually very happy with it. I'm a bit confused as to why this is addressed to me???
Support Staff 87 Posted by Luke Le on 29 Oct, 2012 12:08 PM
@bdebbotari: Brian Topping is addressed.
88 Posted by Thomas Grandsae... on 29 Oct, 2012 07:37 PM
Can you please unsubscribe me from this thread
89 Posted by Linh Nguyen on 29 Oct, 2012 07:56 PM
You can unsubscribe yourself.
Thanks,
90 Posted by Alexander Dorma... on 01 Nov, 2012 09:12 AM
This comment was split into a new discussion: Mountain Lion GPGTools (web)
Nice to see GPGTools coming to ML :)
Just donated and would love to see a preview in my inbox soon! Keep up the good work, GPGTools is a breeze <3!