tag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:/discussions/feedback/12109-please-be-clear-how-often-will-i-have-to-payGPGTools: Discussion 2022-02-22T14:06:30Ztag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-26T14:40:52Z2018-09-26T14:40:52ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Hi WVQ,</p>
<p>thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings.</p>
<p>All the open questions should now be answered on the following pages:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://gpgtools.org/faq">FAQ</a></li>
<li><a href="https://gpgtools.org/open-letter">Open Letter</a></li>
<li><a href="https://gpgtools.org/support-plan">Support Plan</a></li>
</ul>
<p>In order to make it abundantly clear for users who haven't updated to 2018.4 yet, we have added a red banner on top of our release notes:<br>
<img src="/help/assets/ad71dad0a38e69652991e158b602fe46a8c52906/normal/release_notes_2.png" alt="release_notes_2.png"> 
For reference the [original release notes].(<a href="https://entp-tender-production.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/e2eb257eb489d55f47cb3502b112d925e334e510/release_notes_1.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAISVUXXOK32ATONEQ&Expires=1853538213&Signature=HYvrysnLa8Gg5%2Fg%2Fv0UH%2Fgc9A4o%3D">https://entp-tender-production.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/e2eb257eb489...</a>)</p>
<p>To sum up the most important points about GPG Mail 3 and the Support Plan:</p>
<ul>
<li>GPG Mail trial will work for 30 days with no restrictions</li>
<li>After 30 days you will still be able to read all of your encrypted emails - GPG Mail will no longer encrypt/sign or verify emails</li>
<li>Once you have purchased the GPG Mail Support Plan, you will receive updates of GPG Mail 3 until the next major version is released which can but doesn't have to coincide with the next major macOS release but not more often than that. Special prices will be available for upgrades</li>
</ul>
<p>We would really like to see you stay, but want to assure you that even if you don't like our offering there are many alternatives available. The encryption technology which is used in GPG Suite is not a proprietary one, so you are not reliant on our tools to decrypt your existing emails. There is no lock-in. In additon all of our source code is available publicly.</p>
<p>Best,<br>
steve</p></div>Stevetag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-26T15:55:27Z2018-09-26T15:55:28ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Steve, I appreciate all the links and info, but I don't think you have answered my question (nor has any of the material you linked to). I simply want to know if I must expect to pay for GPG Mail more or less every year. "Can but doesn't have to coincide with the next major macOS release" does not make that clearer—this could still mean next year, or 10 years from now. I am sure that you, as the developers and vendors (!) of this product, have a much clearer plan than that. What I'm asking—and what every other potential buyer of your product deserves—is that you be transparent with that plan and not hide behind "can but doesn't have to". If you expect to release a major revision of GPG Mail with more or less every major macOS release from now on, <em>please just say so</em>.</p></div>WVQtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-26T16:19:40Z2018-09-26T16:19:40ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>By defining it this broadly we wanted to keep our option open to include a second major version for example, if only few adjustements need to be made, or not many new features are released in a year. So it will be at most every year and prices for owners of the previous version will differ.</p>
<p>Best,<br>
steve</p></div>Stevetag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-26T16:46:33Z2018-09-26T16:46:34ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>What do you mean by "include a second major version"? Of macOS?</p>
<p>And how will prices for existing owners differ? Depending on how much, that could make a huge difference or no difference at all...</p></div>WVQtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-26T17:36:20Z2018-09-26T17:36:22ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>I have to agree with WVQ that this answer is too nebulous. Even it you cannot commit, a general roadmap is needed. I too would hesitate to be purchasing an annual subscription at that rate, but more than happy to pay for your excellent software.</p>
<p>So, is this an annual subscription, or what is it? In other words, please directly answer WVQ's question as best as you can.</p>
<p>Thanks, SH</p></div>Scotttag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-27T04:49:25Z2018-09-27T04:49:27ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>It's unfortunate that even after the huge uproar that their abrupt change to a paid model has caused, this team continues to upset their market. They don't seem to be very knowledegable on the business side.</p></div>George Yaitag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-27T13:28:10Z2018-09-27T13:28:11ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>GPG Suite - please - give this a LOT more though in terms of your business and marketing. George is right on target with a problem that only you can fix. And should do so very soon.</p>
<p>A subscription model is OK by me, BUT only if it's fairly priced with a long term vision in place by you. Too much, I'm done. You don't want to lose your many, many occasional users who can live without your product, but want to be current with their software uses.</p>
<p>I'd pay $15 annually to subscribe. Won't that give you a good working revenue stream?</p>
<p>Best,<br>
SH</p></div>Scotttag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-28T02:21:22Z2018-09-28T02:21:24ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>uninstalling. You guys have become thieves, and I hope the FSF comes after you for GPL violations. You should be required to no longer use GPG.</p>
<p>Later.</p></div>Jeraldtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-28T08:09:23Z2018-09-28T08:09:25ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Anybody has the right to charge for OpenSource software!<br>
However, they must make it very clear that users can compile their own version and then, provide the users with their source code.<br>
The issue here is that, until faced with massive outrage by the community, they chose not to publish their updated code, instead saying that it would be available sometime "in coming weeks". Furthermore, because their latest code is buggy, they suggest to downgrade to the previous version. However, they've not published that code on their site.<br>
In any case, their source code includes lines which effectively effectively "kills" the functionality of GPGMail unless a user complies with their new demands for payment. I've no idea if this is in compliance with FSF but suspect that they're treading on very thin ice.</p></div>George Yaitag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-28T09:44:38Z2018-09-28T09:44:39ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Notwithstanding the latest off-topic contributions in this thread, I would still appreciate an answer to my questions in post #4 concerning Steve's previous answer. I'll reformulate them here:</p>
<p>1) Do I understand correctly that any major GPG Mail revision in the future <em>might</em> still last for <em>more</em> than one major macOS release? That is, if a macOS relase doesn't break essential stuff and there are no other important features coming up in GPG Mail, you will release only a <em>minor</em> new version that existing customers will <strong>not</strong> have to pay for again?</p>
<p>This is a very important question for potential customers because it tells us whether you plan to monetize as per your actual needs rather than on a fixed schedule.</p>
<p>2) What is the planned discount for existing owners on future major versions of GPG Mail? I'm sure you already have a ballpark number in mind; please tell us that. Depending on what it is, the yearly cost might turn out low enough that even casual users (like me) could justifiy the expense. Or not. But we need to know where we're headed.</p></div>WVQtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-09-28T13:41:19Z2018-09-28T13:41:20ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>So, I received a slightly revised answer from Steve in a private thread. I quote (my emphasis):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Once you have purchased the GPG Mail Support Plan, it is valid for GPG Mail 3. <strong>Depending on the necessary changes, next years macOS release might see GPG Mail 4 or might see GPG Mail 3 going on.</strong> We wanted to keep the option open to support more than one new OS in one major version of GPG Mail. Special prices will be available for upgrades</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So that seems to answer at least question 1) above.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the answer concerning what that "special price for upgrades" will be appears to be "we can't (or won't) tell you". Which is very unfortunate, because for the customer that means the expected price for continued use of GPG Mail will likely be close to 24 € per year. GPG Mail 3 <em>might</em> cover a longer timeframe, or the next version <em>might</em> be substantially discounted, but both of those also might not be the case, so 24 € a year is what we'll have to assume. (Not even considering possible price increases in the future.)</p>
<p>I'm sorry to say this won't cut it for me. I'd have loved to continue to support this project, but at that amount of expenses, I simply cannot justify it.</p></div>WVQtag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-16T12:08:07Z2018-10-16T12:08:33ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>@WVQ: Since we have never sold software and supporting services before, we are still learning, so please bear with us. I believe the discount for existing users will probably be within 30-50% (as it is relatively common with other software, if I'm not mistaken), but this is not something we have already decided. As we are currently seeing in 10.14.1 beta 3 Apple has decided to introduce a bigger change to macOS Mail which currently breaks GPG Mail due to methods that have been removed which have been in use by GPG Mail. This is very unusual to happen in a minor release, but it can and we have no influence what so ever. That's also why we just don't know yet what will happen with the next major release of macOS.</p>
<p>In regards to the source code, all of our source code is available on Github, for all versions. We might perform a restructuring in the future and clean up, but that might still take some time. The source code for each release can be found at <a href="https://releases.gpgtools.org/GPG_Suite-201X.X.txz">https://releases.gpgtools.org/GPG_Suite-201X.X.txz</a> (replace the Xs with the version you are looking for) and for the corresponding PGP signature append .sig</p>
<p>As we have stated before in various threads, it is ok to remove the payment code from your own compiled version. The GPL license absolutely allows you do that and quite some people have already done that. We personally are not aware of any GPL violation.</p></div>Luke Letag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-23T14:22:53Z2018-10-23T14:22:55ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>This is the new common on software, they have grown their user base, under the Trial period, now they want to slash us with unclear price scheme, the only thing you can deduct from that behavior is the will to get more and more money, they may have done very good numbers. let' say if they have 10 Million users and 1 % stay paying... for a software that at some point was useless for a long time until they made the proper fixes on mac os.</p>
<p>I am uninstalling too</p></div>Martin Hermosillatag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-23T14:25:18Z2018-10-23T14:25:20ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>If you see on the about tab it is clear that they user base should be really big on GPG Mail is the only trial par.</p></div>Martin Hermosillatag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-23T14:28:24Z2018-10-23T14:28:25ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Darn they do not provide uninstall directly on the settings. you have to download a uninstaller separated and they offer remove only the gpg mail, (The most used thing) or uninstall everything...</p></div>Martin Hermosillatag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-24T11:19:36Z2018-10-24T11:19:36ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>This <a href="https://gpgtools.tenderapp.com/kb/faq/uninstall-gpg-suite">KB-article</a> explains how to uninstall GPGTools or GPG Mail only.</p></div>Stevetag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-26T11:19:51Z2018-10-26T11:19:52ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Thanks, I have deinstalled GPG... I don't think that I like the path that they want to go...</p></div>kstag:gpgtools.tenderapp.com,2011-11-04:Comment/461536912018-10-26T11:29:43Z2018-10-26T11:29:43ZPlease be clear: How often will I have to pay?<div><p>Sorry to see you go, but we can understand if you do not like our offering.</p>
<p>We'll close this discussion. For remaining questions please don't hesitate to file new discussions any time and we will do our best to help you out.</p></div>Steve